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I believe the reason for the lack of mass adoption is status quo and poor education or lack of perceived value. A friend told me once that “there is nothing more permanent than the provincial.” I believe the statement is relevant regarding this practice.
Michael
MyEclipse SupportJoel,
I prefer the old way, coz I write HTML with embedded commands.
Using XML Syntax means you write XML with embedded HTML.This is a huge difference.
NOP
For what its worth, I use the XML syntax for my JSPs as well, and am in the same boat with Joel… 🙁
–FritzM.
<armchair> With respect to needing a new JSP compiler to support this: could a preprocessor (XSLT, say?) be grafted onto your existing compiler to grind XML JSP’s into the “classic” format before the compiler sees them? (Most compiler/containers these days are actually doing this the other way around, and operating internally on the XML representation. But if its a shorter path to success with the existing compiler…) </armchair>
Well this seams to be a boat which gets larger at the moment. I think that the XML standard goes way beyond the old “funky” JSP standard.
Note that of version 2.0 of the JSP standard there has a third standard arrived in the form of jspx. This form doesn’t have to use the jsp:root element anymore, however, you need to use one of the namaspace items as root, such as struts’ html:html element. I think that it is best to directly look this way, because it is backward compatible with version 1.2 of XML/JSP.
For what it’s worth, I think that embedding code into JSP pages is very bad practice, even with using <jsp:scriptlet>…</jsp:scriptlet> because it should be understood by webdesigners who don’t know of any programming language, and it abuses any feasible design (both MVC and Model 2).
Sjoerd
Thanks for the feedback.
An interesting statistic here at Genuitec and among a large number of our clients and developer friends is that seldom do non-Java webdesigners implement JSPs and practically none of them use JSP or custom tags in their work. The typical workflow we observe is a high-end webdesigner doing screen layouts and prototypes and then kicking them over the wall to Java/JSP coders to do the real implementation and maintenance. To be honest these are small teams of 10 or less developers (which is pretty typical). In such cases many developers find themselves much more efficient writing scriptlet code to get their page working fast vs trying to understand, develop, and debug through a tag layer.
An alternative best practice we see is a desire to minimize scriptlet code by limiting its use to formatting. For business functions, call out to a Java layer from a scriplet to do the computation. This approach allows a developer to use MyEclipse to debug JSP->Java code flow without having to debug a magic tag layer.
I’m not trying to start a flame war other than I am not so convinced that scriplet code is as bad as some assert. We have seen projects slow their progress dramatically as their web teams outlawed use of scriptlets and then struggled to make progress developing and debugging their own tags as well as learning the API and quirks of other taglibs.
We worked on a project recently that include PHP coders and they were appauled by what they termed pains and obstacles that the Java community heaps upon itself (plus strong typing was a major pain for them).
OK, I’ll go back to support. I do appreciate your feedback on where JSP 2.0 is going.
Michael
MyEclipse SupportJoel,
I agree with you.
We are even more srious about it than you, as we use only JSP 2.0 documents with the new JSPX syntax. NO MORE scriptlets…
I cannot use Myeclipse for my code for now, since the XML is NOT supported…
PhilippeOkay, this issue has set stagnant for some time now and I would like to remind you that it has not disappeared as a problem for us who use XML in JSP. Is this being considered at all or should we be resigned to not using MyEclispe for web development?
Thanks,
JoelJoel,
If you take a look here: http://www.myeclipseide.com/ContentExpress-display-ceid-6.html, it shows that we have some preview of our JSP 2.0 support comming in the 2.8 release of MyEclipse. This will include support for the XML-style JSP files like you requested.We appologize for the long turn around time on this, but our TODO lists are really driven by user request, and there were quite a few other things that many people demanded we work on first and foremost.
The good news is that our devs working on the JSP 2.0 support are too smart for their own good, so I think you will be happy with the result.
That is really good news, we will be looking forward to the release. Thank you very much for listening and getting it into MyEclipse, I know we are in the minority and I appreciate your still caring about us.
Best Regards,
JoelWe are at 3.8.4 and still no JSPX support… |<(. I am thinking about making a switch to NetBeans 4 with excellent JSPX support (benevolent forces forbin!). Anything on the horizon?
Ax/
Extending ME JSP to support jspx has been on our list since our first version shipped. The situation is that customer demand for bigger and broader features has greatly exceeded interest in XML style JSPs. I anticipate that we will be revisiting advanced JSP support issues as part of a strong JSF feature set that we are planning after getting our new JSP designer tools launched.
