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Can you provide some info on the upcoming flexiproject support, and if it will make it into 5.0?
(I have seen in other topics that you wrote the flexiproject spec for WTP and will use their implementation, but I haven’t found any info on the status of WTP’s effort.)My hope is that it will solve the problems we experience because we cannot use the standard “WebRoot style” directory structure. In short, our “webroot” files are spread over different source control directories, so JSP files, XML descriptor files, taglib jars etc are found in different places (and a particular file type may exist in multiple locations).
Today we use an Ant script to merge these directories into a standard webapp directory tree. Deployment-wise this is ok, but it doesn’t help content-assist and validation. When editing f ex JSPs in their source location we get content-assist and validation quirks due to the file residing outside WebRoot. And it is not desirable to edit the copy of the file in the generated webapp tree.So, what we need is:
1) A way to specify a “WebApp Source Path” with multiple directories so ME’s view of the web-project (for all web-related validation and content-assist) is the merge of the contents under these directories.
2) When having this information about the WebApp contents it would be natural to automatically synchronize a merged copy suitable for deployment, like the pre-1.0 WTP’s .deployments directory.
3) A bonus feature would be to be able to specify dependencies to other projects in the workspace carrying taglib jars (and other WEB-INF jars) and that they would be automatically “merged” to ME’s view of the project and the synchronized WEB-INF/lib directory. This would save time when setting up a new project, especially when you want to have the source locations configured…
So, any pointers on the status of this would be appreciated.
Thanks/MikeCan you provide some info on the upcoming flexiproject support, and if it will make it into 5.0?
(I have seen in other topics that you wrote the flexiproject spec for WTP and will use their implementation, but I haven’t found any info on the status of WTP’s effort.)The plan is to use what is in WTP currently, but the usability of it is a major problem, so we will likely change that and make sure it flows and supports what we have now.
Today we use an Ant script to merge these directories into a standard webapp directory tree. Deployment-wise this is ok, but it doesn’t help content-assist and validation. When editing f ex JSPs in their source location we get content-assist and validation quirks due to the file residing outside WebRoot. And it is not desirable to edit the copy of the file in the generated webapp tree.
We understand, this is a similar problem the Maven folk are having as well. We have been waiting a *long* time for the flexiproject work to stabalize and we are getting close. The work on 5.0 has already started internally and it’s going to be a long road with a first milestone somewhere in March if all goes well.
The plan is to use what is in WTP currently, but the usability of it is a major problem, so we will likely change that and make sure it flows and supports what we have now.
Ok – but I thought WTP actually had removed the multi-module stuff from 0.7 and were working on something better which isn’t finished. Or are you saying there is flexiproject support in WTP 1.0?
(I haven’t seen anything about this in WTP’s New and Noteworthy…)Ok – but I thought WTP actually had removed the multi-module stuff from 0.7 and were working on something better which isn’t finished. Or are you saying there is flexiproject support in WTP 1.0?
(I haven’t seen anything about this in WTP’s New and Noteworthy…)I don’t know the details of it unfortunately, but I will sync up with the developer that I was talking to earlier and get more info.
Ok – but I thought WTP actually had removed the multi-module stuff from 0.7 and were working on something better which isn’t finished. Or are you saying there is flexiproject support in WTP 1.0?
There’s a bit of confusion here. When we wrote the spec we layed out our vision of what flexible project support means. In short, it was the ability for a developer to lay out the varies JEE project types (Enterprise, WAR, EJB, library, client) any way they like, so long as they can specify where the required elements live. For example, location of web.xml etc. So instead of an exploded layout with *some* flex points and library support, like we have now, we specified the *next level* of flexibility, which we got from your requirements on our forums.
However, during the 0.7 build timeline the requirements got augmented to include the ability to support multiple JEE modules in a *single* Eclipse project. For example, a project that contains an EAR, three web applications and 9 EJBs. We *never* supported this requirement because it makes it impossible for the IDE to do what IDE’s are supposed to do, which is find errors during development, prior to deployment. Since Eclipse allows configuration of classloaders only at the project level, with the “multiple project” layout (that we support) it is possible to exactly configure the Eclpise classloader hierarchy just like the JEE spec says it must be configured in a compliant server. This is why in MyEclipse we can catch errors at development time, prior to having stuff just “blow up” at deployment. If the “single project” model was supported, proper classloader configuration is impossible and this would prevent the IDE from performing one of its most valuable functions, static analysis.
In 0.7 the team tried to support both. After 0.7 they realized that the “single project” support was unworkable and unhelpful principally for the reasons I listed above. As a result, that model was removed and the “multiple project” model support was strengthened (although still a bit buggy in 1.0). Note: this doesn’t mean that *you* can’t set up whatever you want in a project and write some script to deploy it yourself. It only means that the environment won’t help you do it because it really *can’t* provide much benefit due to the classloader problem.
Hope that clears things up a bit.
Hi Scott,
I agree with you that the multi-module project thingie is better avoided, at least as long as an Eclipse project is designed the way it is. And what I am looking for myself is flexibility for a single-module project.
So instead of an exploded layout with *some* flex points and library support, like we have now, we specified the *next level* of flexibility, which we got from your requirements on our forums.
<snip>
As a result, that model was removed and the “multiple project” model support was strengthened (although still a bit buggy in 1.0).So, about this *next level* of flexibility; is it really there in WTP 1.0? (I’ve been looking for settings to specify where my out-of-WebRoot resources reside but have failed…)
And if there is this support, is it what you will include in 5.0 or are you cooking something better yourselves?
BTW: I hope you do not mean that my single-module webapp, with a non-standard source structure, will only be supported in the IDE by dividing it over multiple projects? That would truly be a Bad Thing.
Best regards
MikeSo, about this *next level* of flexibility; is it really there in WTP 1.0?
It’s my understanding that it is there, but I haven’t used it myself. For questions I’d have to direct you to the WTP news group.
And if there is this support, is it what you will include in 5.0 or are you cooking something better yourselves?
We’ll minimally have everything the MyEclipse 4.1 has today in addtion to what’s available from WTP 1.5. On top of that we’ll integrate the two models and add any additional capabilities that are required for the level of flexibility we initially envisioned.
BTW: I hope you do not mean that my single-module webapp, with a non-standard source structure, will only be supported in the IDE by dividing it over multiple projects?
No, that’s not what I mean at all. You should be able to lay it out in the project the way you want and just tell the environment where that “standard artifacts” are located so it can package them correctly.
Hi again, just wanted to check on the status of the flexiproject stuff – when and in which milestone do you reckon it will appear? We are starting a new project so I would like to know what our options for the project structure are…
(BTW: I can’t find any post-M1 info in the roadmap?)(BTW: I can’t find any post-M1 info in the roadmap?)
I’m interested in this too. I noticed more people have asked about this. Especially with the nearby release of Eclipse 3.2 final, people probably like to start making their plans for a 3.2 transition. Knowing about the milestones of MyEclipse would help a lot 😉
I am also interested in this…
How much of my original specification proposal will be supported by this feature? 🙂
Best regards,
Robert
Robert,
Last I heard after a technical and use-case evaluation of what’s there in WTP now we were left scratching our heads, it’s nothing like we originally intended. We think it will get a lot better, but right now it’s not much better than what we have going on, just different. I ran across a blog this morning by a fellow who didn’t like it because it was too strict of a layout format, which would mean we would be trading one set of problems for another, instead of solving the problem.I think management is getting to a point with a lot of these big features where we don’t want to wait anymore. I know some executive decisions in the last 2 days were made with some pretty big features to chop the heads off the junky part and stop waiting for 3rd parties to improve and just do it ourselves. This is an expensive proposition but we do it when necessary.
As far as the project stuff, to compensate the developer working on it had me send him a list of “the most wanted enhancements to deployments and projects” so I fired it off to him, I think we ended up getting half the list in for 5.0, so atleast we are making headway there.
There is one more feature I’ll pulling for hard (explicit archive names in JEE deployments), but that may slip to right after 5.0, not sure yet.
And when will we see at least a preview of the flexiproject stuff in a release? Could you relate to M2 (July 6 according to the homepage) and GA (August 6) ?
Cheers
MikeMike,
My post from a few days ago was pretty much saying no flexi project for 5.0, sorry I should have clarified that. But we will get M2 of 5.0 out the door at the end of this month or beginning of next. We are on our 6th internal build of it and are flying through the bug fixes and then verification stages. It may slip to beginning of July because there is still a long list of bugs to verify before we get to M2 but it is really shaping up nicely. M1 was basically 4.1.1 ported to Eclipse 3.2 and WTP 1.5, M2 is going to be all that work, plus all the features we targetted for 5.0 and some more bug fixes. Then we are either going right to the RC’s and doing nothing but bug fixes or an M3 if people report major issues with the new features. So far in our internal testing nothing major has popped up and we have people on Windows, Linux and 2 guys on Mac so our team is fairly diverse as far as finding bugs.
