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I’m relatively agnostic when it comes to web application technologies
but one thing that does not escape me is the fact that a large number
of sites on the internet devoted to J2EE forums and tool-mongering use
PHP.Does the Emporer have any clothes? Are all the detractors of Java
on the web actually right ?Moving to OT > General.
but one thing that does not escape me is the fact that a large number
of sites on the internet devoted to J2EE forums and tool-mongering use
PHP.I don’t understand your implicit connection between selling a java-based solution and using java portal technology. How does one have anything to do with the other?
In our case, phpNuke was the most functional piece of portal software we could find when we started, we are not in the market to develop portal software, we are a tool company, so the less time we spend on the portal the more effort we can put into the product. There was no discussion about this, it made no sense for us to develop or extend existing Java portal software.
I can’t speak to any other companies, this is simply our experience 2 years ago when we started.
@bdhaliwal wrote:
Does the Emporer have any clothes? Are all the detractors of Java
on the web actually right ?Perhaps you might ask this question over at Slashdot. They love trolls.
I think people who hate Java are the ones who love PHP (Slashdot stats).
I, having developed sites using PHP for a couple of years, think that people who are die-hard PHP fans, hardcore Java haters are usually the ones that extremly lack formal education (don’t get me wrong, there are so many excellent Java developers with Community College/High school diplomas) but the majority of the PHP crowd use it because it’s very simple and they don’t want to spend the time to learn some REAL programming language or any of it’s impressive and ROCK SOLID design patterns. Usually those people lack the vision to see how J2EE (or even .NET for that matters) is not even at the same levelas PHP, PHP is too simple, although trying to be sophisticated with version 5, to be used in a real enterpriseprise application, maybe a personal blog, a message board or something like that.
it pisses me off how the Slashdot crowd blindly hate Java, with “Java Sucks” in every other word. I see that attitud even with people with me in University, the other day a guy lashed at me because I invited him to attend one of my J2EE seminars in college, he was like: “Java is the worst thing ever made, people who use it shouldn’t be called programmers, I want to see someone who works with Java write a C or C++ program, java does everything and you just watch it or copy paste or click click drag, etc etc etc” he then said something that explained his attitude, he said :”I couldn’t even compile an applete, Java Sucks”. I paused for a minute there, he thinks all what Java is about is these applets or small desktop applications. He doesn’t get the idea that there is a whole world out there with all these small things work together, he and others don’t get what J2EE is or how it can be used, they are blinded by the Slashdot and the like. try arguing with one of these people in real life, you’ll see how personally they take it and how emotional they get when they attack java, because they are clueless, they can’t back what they say with facts so they release emptions to cover it. That guy actully insulted my intellegence, saying that I can’t write a proper C program. He doesn’t know that I learned C when he wasn’t even born yet and that because of Java I own a top of the line, beafed up laptop while he owns a 5 years old laptop that can’t run X-windows in Linux, he uses only console. I LOVE such people, beside the comical value of their arguments, they provide me with job security.
p.s. sorry for the offtopic, had to say something about the Java-haters.
p.s.2 I’m working on a web portal system for 2 sites I’m involved in, J2EE based (EJB and Struts) will have it open sourced when it’s done sometime this summer.p.s. sorry for the offtopic, had to say something about the Java-haters.
Not off topic at all, infact, because this is in the OT forum, this is on topic! Don’t you love the paradox? 🙂
p.s.2 I’m working on a web portal system for 2 sites I’m involved in, J2EE based (EJB and Struts) will have it open sourced when it’s done sometime this summer.
Very cool, be sure to post here in the forums a link when you guys are ready, I’m sure some interested users would want to take a look.
I’ll chime in and say that Riyad basically summed up why we made the selection a couple of years ago. The other issue is that all of our Java developers work on our tools. So, if we had a Java website we’d have to choose taking a developer or two away from tool development to work on the website. On the other hand, we have other people who know PHP and other web technologies, and not Java. Since they’re ineligible to work on tools, they work on the site, and are highly productive at it with the tools they’re used to. What it comes down to is we’re pragmatic; a php-based portal got us to the market faster.
There was an interesting discussion on this topic by the pro-Java crowd, at javalobby.org recently, but I can’t seem to find the link now. Maybe they deleted the thread. 😉
